I think his podcast is one good indication on how low he has fallen. There are some good episodes, but mostly he's just pushing his agenda everywhere he goes, and all he makes nowadays is propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a preparation prior launching a career in politics. Truly sad. I once was inspired by him, now it's just intelectually upsetting, sometimes even boring, to listen to him.
A good point. I’m often late to the party. The first time I heard of him was when he was interviewed in the observer. Maybe you did the interview? I think I read the book that he was promoting at the time.
It is always sad to watch the tumble. In the beginning I listened to him (JP) a bit and there were remarkable kernels of truth and observation. I remember the wonderful Anne Kadet post which arrived around the time it seemed the JP shooting star was beginning to tumble. Rigidity of thought regardless of the process how you arrived is a sad thing.
My sense is it is wonderful when we arrive at a conclusion at a moment in time and early JP was thinking out loud. Alas the world changes and remaining open even if it means you must say "I was wrong" is very hard. An idea that creates a pivot to change and enlightenment is a blessing if we embrace it and emotionally unsettling if we do not. Without continued questioning, however, we are prone to becoming a prisoner to something that is no longer sensible (and deep down the most thoughtful know it). Whatever it is we embrace must be refined as the pile of facts shift lest we become mad as a hatter. It seems to me those who solidify their thoughts at some moment are prone to their future (and inevitable) fleeting thought (emotions & impulse) to reinforce. Without forethought we can become doomed to being buried in place. I hope he can dig himself out and return to his once careful and comprehensive consideration rather than a seemingly venomous anger and rancor.
What I am describing must be very hard to do as I only have a few "thinkers" I follow who seem able to adjust their thoughts along the journey and accept they are never 100% right. Such people can be tiring to listen to at times -- likely because the journey they seem to be on is very tough to follow in ourselves (and likely confusing to our primitive brains which were partial to their idea 1.0).
I agree. I've never met JP but I've noticed and lamented his decline.
I think you are right that the enormous, mean-spirited backlash that he faced did a number on him. (He's alluded to this.) But JP made a big mistake too. He is too sensitive to slights, and he's too online. This is obvious.
My hard-won secret superpower is that I've learned to identify people with Cluster B personality disorders. There are a lot of them out there! The secret is to never engage. Stop giving them what they want. When you encounter a toxic person (or a Twitter troll) just look the other way or cross the street. This advice rarely fails.
Interesting piece. I thought it was just me but I can relate to much of what Tim Lott says. About 5 years ago, before I knew anything about Peterson, I listened to the audiobook version of his '12 Rules for Life'. Apart from one or two of his 'Rules', particularly those that involved religious belief, I came away from it thinking that on the whole they seemed like a sensible set of principles I could get behind. Shortly after this, I was surprised to read in the Guardian that he was deemed to be a non-negotiable right-wing nutjob, and felt alarmed at what this said about me as I'd always considered myself to be a woolly liberal type. This must have been the period when cancel culture and gender activism were emerging to split the liberal centre. I guess I'd been pushed onto the Peterson side of the line and without realising or intending, and become some sort of de facto woolly fascist instead. This disappointed me but I accepted my lot.
As for Peterson, yes, the Cathy Newman interview (available on YouTube) struck me as the pinnacle of the man fighting the good fight in the best possible way -- with good humour, courtesy, and rock-solid logic. Then I largely forgot about him until a few weeks ago when I heard a piece about him on Radio 4 and discovered that his journey hadn't stopped with Newman but had motored on into increasing weirdness. I suppose the weight of celebrity and celebration had pulled him ever onwards. A great shame but I'm still grateful for the clarity and rationality he once brought to the now-familiar culture war arguments around tolerance and freedom of speech.
Provocative "content" drives views and clicks on social media. No idea how much this drives JP but undoubtedly drives many people online to become more and more outrageous.
I kept an open mind a few years ago when on Twitter many of my leftie followers were going after Jordan Peterson with a pitchfork. In fact I lost a few followers for defending one of his more rational posts. I started to find him more troubling than controversial when I heard his views on women diagnosed with ptsd/bpd. 'Glad you're not my shrink' I thought. And then he went off the rails completely with Covid. Being twitter-banned he sulked like a wounded man-child and became poisonous. Vindictive. Untrustworthy, as far as I'm concerned.
I was JBP curious when he was on his ascent. His collapse was my introduction to the concept of "audience capture" and taught me that I don't need one.
Even though my ego would enjoy having a big audience, watching the intellectual fall of various figures have shown me the potential soul crushing distortion of developing and maintaining a following.
I think his podcast is one good indication on how low he has fallen. There are some good episodes, but mostly he's just pushing his agenda everywhere he goes, and all he makes nowadays is propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a preparation prior launching a career in politics. Truly sad. I once was inspired by him, now it's just intelectually upsetting, sometimes even boring, to listen to him.
A good point. I’m often late to the party. The first time I heard of him was when he was interviewed in the observer. Maybe you did the interview? I think I read the book that he was promoting at the time.
It is always sad to watch the tumble. In the beginning I listened to him (JP) a bit and there were remarkable kernels of truth and observation. I remember the wonderful Anne Kadet post which arrived around the time it seemed the JP shooting star was beginning to tumble. Rigidity of thought regardless of the process how you arrived is a sad thing.
My sense is it is wonderful when we arrive at a conclusion at a moment in time and early JP was thinking out loud. Alas the world changes and remaining open even if it means you must say "I was wrong" is very hard. An idea that creates a pivot to change and enlightenment is a blessing if we embrace it and emotionally unsettling if we do not. Without continued questioning, however, we are prone to becoming a prisoner to something that is no longer sensible (and deep down the most thoughtful know it). Whatever it is we embrace must be refined as the pile of facts shift lest we become mad as a hatter. It seems to me those who solidify their thoughts at some moment are prone to their future (and inevitable) fleeting thought (emotions & impulse) to reinforce. Without forethought we can become doomed to being buried in place. I hope he can dig himself out and return to his once careful and comprehensive consideration rather than a seemingly venomous anger and rancor.
What I am describing must be very hard to do as I only have a few "thinkers" I follow who seem able to adjust their thoughts along the journey and accept they are never 100% right. Such people can be tiring to listen to at times -- likely because the journey they seem to be on is very tough to follow in ourselves (and likely confusing to our primitive brains which were partial to their idea 1.0).
I know that you knew him quite well Tim and I respect your judgement, but I thought he was a charlatan right from the start. Sorry.
This post I wrote last year shares many of your reflections Tim! Back when JP was delightful, he really was delightful.
https://annekadet.substack.com/p/peterson
I agree. I've never met JP but I've noticed and lamented his decline.
I think you are right that the enormous, mean-spirited backlash that he faced did a number on him. (He's alluded to this.) But JP made a big mistake too. He is too sensitive to slights, and he's too online. This is obvious.
My hard-won secret superpower is that I've learned to identify people with Cluster B personality disorders. There are a lot of them out there! The secret is to never engage. Stop giving them what they want. When you encounter a toxic person (or a Twitter troll) just look the other way or cross the street. This advice rarely fails.
Thanks Andy, i've held on to being on his side for a long time, but I think he really has hollowed himself out.
Interesting piece. I thought it was just me but I can relate to much of what Tim Lott says. About 5 years ago, before I knew anything about Peterson, I listened to the audiobook version of his '12 Rules for Life'. Apart from one or two of his 'Rules', particularly those that involved religious belief, I came away from it thinking that on the whole they seemed like a sensible set of principles I could get behind. Shortly after this, I was surprised to read in the Guardian that he was deemed to be a non-negotiable right-wing nutjob, and felt alarmed at what this said about me as I'd always considered myself to be a woolly liberal type. This must have been the period when cancel culture and gender activism were emerging to split the liberal centre. I guess I'd been pushed onto the Peterson side of the line and without realising or intending, and become some sort of de facto woolly fascist instead. This disappointed me but I accepted my lot.
As for Peterson, yes, the Cathy Newman interview (available on YouTube) struck me as the pinnacle of the man fighting the good fight in the best possible way -- with good humour, courtesy, and rock-solid logic. Then I largely forgot about him until a few weeks ago when I heard a piece about him on Radio 4 and discovered that his journey hadn't stopped with Newman but had motored on into increasing weirdness. I suppose the weight of celebrity and celebration had pulled him ever onwards. A great shame but I'm still grateful for the clarity and rationality he once brought to the now-familiar culture war arguments around tolerance and freedom of speech.
Provocative "content" drives views and clicks on social media. No idea how much this drives JP but undoubtedly drives many people online to become more and more outrageous.
He drank the Andrew Tate flavoured KoolAid
I kept an open mind a few years ago when on Twitter many of my leftie followers were going after Jordan Peterson with a pitchfork. In fact I lost a few followers for defending one of his more rational posts. I started to find him more troubling than controversial when I heard his views on women diagnosed with ptsd/bpd. 'Glad you're not my shrink' I thought. And then he went off the rails completely with Covid. Being twitter-banned he sulked like a wounded man-child and became poisonous. Vindictive. Untrustworthy, as far as I'm concerned.
I was JBP curious when he was on his ascent. His collapse was my introduction to the concept of "audience capture" and taught me that I don't need one.
Even though my ego would enjoy having a big audience, watching the intellectual fall of various figures have shown me the potential soul crushing distortion of developing and maintaining a following.